When we think of a fellow anime fan as an “elitist,” it usually means that they have some kind of elevated view of how anime – and to a certain extent, its fans – should be, and they deride what doesn’t live up to that view. The most common ideas associated with anime elitists is that they believe the only good anime are the ones that are distinctly creative and intellectually stimulating, or that the only true fans are those that watch anime using strictly legal methods…
Even though I can enjoy pretty much all genres of anime (I have my favorites of course), I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone who likes only one or two genres. The problem comes when the person starts making negative judgements about anime they don’t watch and thus know little to nothing about. Ignorance is one of my pet peeves, especially when it entails just that – bashing something that you only have a vague idea about and having little to no experience to back up your claim. To illustrate with an example, let’s say there’s someone who mostly watches action/mecha anime and decides that all moe/slice-of-life anime is terrible. They claim all anime in that genre are boring, stupid, perverted, and cliche, and they don’t miss an opportunity to mock fans of the genre either. That to me is a form of elitism – making these grandiose claims about an entire genre of anime and its fans, especially when you have little first-hand knowledge about it.
So then, let’s say this person decides to give one moe/slice-of-life anime a try – Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai for example – and as expected, they hated it. But does watching one anime among hundreds from a genre suddenly give a ton of merit to their extreme claims about the genre as a whole? The fact that even within a genre there’s still such a variety of series and storytelling methods, is one of the many great things about anime. Even though Naruto and Death Note are both classified as shonen anime, Code Geass and Macross Frontier are both classified as mecha, and Hanasaku Iroha and Clannad are both classified as slice-of-life, one series in each pair is very different in style, theme, story, etc., from the other. With that said, it’s hard to put a solid number on how many series from a genre one should watch in order to be considered very knowledgeable about that genre. Going back to my original example, while I certainly think the person could make claims about Haganai since they did indeed watch it, I don’t feel they can do the same about the whole of slice-of-life anime based on one series.
I think there’s a simple solution to get your point across without the need to sound elitist. Rather than claim that all slice-of-life (or whatever genre of anime) is stupid, cliche, etc., you can just say “I find this genre of anime stupid” or “This genre of anime tends to bore me,” or something similar. When you add yourself to the statement, it makes it sound like you’re speaking from personal taste and it doesn’t sound like you’re trying to make your opinion a fact. Like CyborgCommunist said in a recent post, at the end of the day, whether something is good or not depends on the individual and not things like popularity or what kind of talent is behind it. But at the same time, if I’m going to pass a very subjective statement about a certain anime series or genre as true, I would feel obligated to be familiar with what I’m judging and provide evidence from first-hand experience, like I did with my criticism of season 2 of Nogizaka Haruka for example. There’s a difference between the sentences “Moe anime is bad and shouldn’t exist” and “I find moe anime stupid and pointless.” The latter sounds less elitist than the former. You have every right to make the former claim too of course, but I would take you much more seriously if you offer some reasoning for your statement and show that you have at least some first-hand experience with the anime you’re judging so harshly. The best arguments are those that stem from a variety of first-hand knowledge about the subject and not just vague notions of it gotten second-hand from people who probably share the same tastes as you anyway.
The reason I use moe/slice-of-life anime a lot in my examples is because it’s the genre that’s the main target for elitists. I’m not gonna go into detail here since I already did in previous posts. But I’ll just say another sign of elitism is having elevated expectations that all anime should be intellectually or artistically stimulating and should never be just pure pandering entertainment. Going so far as to say that fan-pandering anime (moe, slice-of-life, harem, yaoi/yuri, ecchi) is bad for the industry, when it’s really what’s making the industry do well in Japan, is again claiming that all anime should be as one sees fit rather than cater to different tastes. I don’t have any interest in ecchi or hentai anime, but if there’s a market for them that’s bringing profit to anime companies and joy to fans, I don’t have a problem with them. As long as anime I like is still available, every series that comes out doesn’t need to match my tastes. As for the other elitist idea that one should be 100% “pure” and legal in order to be a true fan is unrealistic. Can we really say that the person who watches tons of anime, some legally and some illegally, blogs about anime, and basically eats, sleeps, and breathes anime, isn’t as true a fan as the person who casually watches anime once in a while but always legally? I certainly think a true fan is someone who tries to financially support the industry when and if they can, but shouldn’t feel guilty for not shelling out money for every anime series they watch. For an easily accessible hobby like anime, I think passion speaks louder than money.
To conclude, I know this is the Internet and there will always be elitists who make grandiose statements about everything they dislike without offering sincere reasons and sneering at everyone of a differing taste, as well as reasonable people who are critical but make honest efforts to explain why they feel the way they do and respect others’ tastes. I’m sure you already know which camp you’re in by now and anything I’ve said here won’t change your mind. Just wanted to get my two cents out there.
Well said, logic and evidence are the keys to accurately presenting an anime series to the curious readers. Broad generalizations and stereotypes only hurt your standing and perpetuate false assumptions.
I’ve met quite a few “moe-bashers” (who, in turn, bash me for my love of A Channel, Lucky Star, K-On!, etc.), and I can say (from first-hand experience!) they rarely cite any examples as to why they don’t like slice of life/moe anime, which bothers me more than their bashing. If you can make a calm argument as to why you don’t like a certain series, or even a certain genre, while not generalizing all of the certain type, then you’re more likely to get my understanding (for what it’s worth…).
Meanwhile, I certainly hope I’m using enough logical basis and citing enough examples in my reviews to not sound elitist. I certainly try to give every series its due examination, without any bias derived from its genre. (The best example I can cite is Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica, I’ve seen clips and entire series alike from the “mahou shoujo” genre, and I can only say it’s not your typical mahou shoujo. Which shows that a genre doesn’t always define the series. )
I see your two cents, and raise you a dirty nickel I found on the sidewalk :3
Thanks for sharing your input. relentlessflame’s comment below pretty much sums up what I also feel about the moe-bashers you speak of. What’s usually the case is that they want anime to be accepted as this intellectual, artistic medium and thus try to distance themselves as much as possible from the stereotyped moe otaku who ruin that image. What results is a lot of generalizing and prejudices about any anime with cute girls as the main characters.
If you’re able to recognize all this, I’m sure you’re not elitist in your reviews at all ;)
What’s odd is how even though a faction of the anti-moe crowd are so-minded because they think slice of life degrades the “intellectual” aspect of the anime genre, there’s an equally voiced faction that promote anime as “intellectual”, but become drooling fans over such mainstream shonen (like Bleach or Naruto).
From personal experience, they’ve never even heard of the real thought-provoking series of the genre (such as Code Geass, .hack//Sign), which just irks me to no end.
What’s this about the industry doing well off of ‘pandering’ (whatever that means — almost everything panders) titles? Can we have some figures, please? Last time I bothered to look up profits, it was fairly mainstream stuff like One Piece and Pretty Cure which were raking it in, not, like, Queen’s Blade or Aria. And I’m not convinced the industry as a whole is that healthy.
When I mentioned “pandering,” I said what I meant in parentheses (moe, slice-of-life, harem, yaoi/yuri, ecchi). But you’re right that other things like mecha, and shonen action is a form of pandering as well. I just meant the most common things in anime thought of as pandering.
While mainstream anime like One Piece do rack in a lot of profit, they’re more lumped together with regular Japanese TV/movies, since they are, well, mainstreamed. By “anime industry,” I mean the niche industry of late-night anime that’s aimed at older otaku. Most of that profit comes from DVD/BD sales, but also sales of character goods like CDs, figures, etc,. And while the US anime industry is not doing well at all right now, as far as I know the industry in Japan is doing fine.
This is an issue that I encounter often, and is a personal pet peeve. Over time I’ve come to believe that a lot of the elitism is really more about self-image, a sort of protectionism, and a way of building credibility with a community defined by what it hates more than what it likes.
To build on your primary example, a lot of people feel threatened by the popularity of moe anime because they feel it reflects negatively on the medium on the whole, and reduces the chance of public acceptance of anime and of them by proxy as an “anime fan”. They may also have had bad interactions with certain fans, or have read stories on the Internet about crazy fanboy antics that make anime fans look crazy, deranged, or dangers to society. And of course, they may have watched an episode here and there, not “gotten it”, and so come to believe what they’ve heard that matches their first impression (sweeping generalizations), rather than what they know through in-depth first-hand experience. So, in an effort to distance themselves from this fandom and rationalize their lack of understanding, they adopt this “well, I only like the Good anime” stance. The more heavily they can emphasize that they’re not like “those people” and they do not like “those shows”, the more they set themselves apart and raise their opinions and themselves on a pedestal.
The elitist language and attitude is rooted in a self-centered worldview and a lack of empathy for others, but this takes a few different forms. Some people just literally don’t care about interacting with people whose opinions they don’t agree with, and/or arguing is the only form of interaction they feel comfortable initiating (i.e. it’s a way to get attention). Some people try to model their writing after bold film critics they admire, without having the depth of experience and knowledge that cause those sorts of boldly-stated opinions to carry wait (or properly understanding that not everything viewed by the same person must be judged by the same criteria). Some people don’t see any value in “coddling” their opinions, assuming that it’s obvious everything they say is subjective without them having to point it out, and that people should have the fortitude to accept strongly-stated difference of opinion and “prove them wrong” as if engaging in a formal debate (n.b. formal debates are generally about convincing undecideds, not each other).
But all this comes down to a common thread of not seeing every post/blog entry/etc. as an opportunity to engage in an implicit (and often explicit) two-way conversation with the reader where both parties can reach a mutual understanding of each other’s points of view. It’s all “broadcasting” and “responding” with very little “listening” and “understanding”. Now of course, as a blogger, some of what you do will always be “broadcasting”, but I think the goal should be to help the reader understand where you’re coming, not just be provoked into a polarized reaction. The latter may be a way of bringing in the hits, but the former is a way of building a long-lasting personal rapport, even and especially with people who see things differently.
People often think they’re writing about a subject, but really they’re actually writing about themselves — helping people see and understand who they are and how they think. Sometimes people assume that just having boldly-stated ideas and well-stated “bullet-proof” arguments will help them win people over or at least be heard. But, unless your goal is to acquire image-worshippers, you also need to be able to relate with others and have them relate with you as an equal. That humble recognition that you’re no better than anyone else even if you have something to say is what really defines whether or not you’ll walk the elitist path. At the end of the day, an elitist may win the trust and admiration of those who share their extreme point of view, but I think they’ll miss the opportunity to engage a much wider community and improve their knowledge and wisdom about humanity. Sort of a “the more you know, the more you realize how much you don’t know” thing.
As always, thanks for expanding on my thoughts so eloquently. I know I’ve discussed the “anti-moe elitism” in my previous posts that you commented on, so I know it’s a touchy subject for you, as it is for me. The next time I come across an elitist, I will direct them to this comment of yours XD
What you said in your fourth paragraph is really an excellent way of blogging and is (hopefully) the persona I’ve been trying to convey. I try not to be too vehemently sure of myself in any criticism I make and always try to give reasons for the strong opinions I do proclaim. I just want people to know what I like and feel, but not get the impression that I’m trying to pass off what I say as fact rather than opinion. Your comment also reminded me that I rarely give any attention to bloggers who just downright state their (usually extremely negative) opinion without a hint of wanting to hear an opposing opinion or caring who they may have insulted. However, I am much more inclined to read and comment on posts that, while they may hold an opposing opinion, the blogger is not so arrogant and unapproachable, and provides sincere reasoning for what they’ve said.
I agree with the points you have made. Although I don’t encounter much elitism, there is one particular person that infuriated me with his hateful remarks about the genre of anime you mention. Normally, I’m rather open minded and will understand if anyone disagrees but bashing or berittering the people who are fans isn’t acceptable. The end result, I had to blacklist this mentioned person so comments like that don’t end up on the blog. I believe this elitism is very harmful to the fandom and make it less attractive to newcomers since they will get misled or view it in a negative way. No matter what, life is short and one shouldn’t stay negative or keep a big hate towards one genre they didn’t even try out… As they say, hatters gonna hate and everyone with their right mind should ignore them by not falling into their trap. But in short, I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion as long they have something to back it up and doesn’t intently bash a certain group of people who enjoy the genre.
As for the fan part, I definitely agree with this. As mentioned in my post, I try my best to buy the DVDs or additional merchandise like games and CDs if I really enjoy the show I like. However, I’m not going to buy every DVD of show I watch because someone say it’s not right. It’s unrealistic and I’m unwilling to buy a DVD without reading the review and find hot that it’s horrible or bad. Although its impossible to change everyone, I wish people would at least give them support to encourage the creators to produce more.
I totally agree that elitism is bad for the fandom – anime has enough trouble being accepted by the general public, so it doesn’t help when fellow fans are bashing each other so harshly. I haven’t had too much trouble with any elitist attacks on my blog, but I have seen other elitist posts and just try to ignore them…unless they’re talking about a subject I’m passionate about, in which case I’ll do my best to provide examples to back up what I say and try to be as reasonable as possible (even if they’re not).
Ah, we get that a lot. And not only in Anime, but movies, games, etc. I used to be bothered by it at the beginning, but not anymore. I understand that everyone is different, and likes different things etc. I also understand that everyone expresses themselves differently. Some may “attack” others that do not share their point of view, or try to attack one genre simply because it is easier to find others with similar passions, and easier for them to communicate. They feel better, or safer, in a group of people with similar passions. So I do not really mind them much. I do not like certain anime, but I share your view that if others like it, and it supports the industry overall, then it’s good to have :) live and let live.
Regarding the legal/unlegal aspect, that one is a bit hard. I do not have easy access to anime, so I cannot directly support the industry as easily. Not something I’m proud of either. But I do not consider myself, or any other any less of a fan. That’s like saying that people that watch football/baseball on TV as less of a fan than people that go to the stadiums. They just have different views, or different amount of resources.
Fandom is something very personal, and it cannot be really measured. We just have to accept all fellow fans and try to get along… Which unfortunately does not always happen, and we get the little “cliques” and elitist behaviour like you mentioned :)
Everyone does indeed feel more comfortable with people who share their same opinion. But like relentlessflame mentioned above, it’s a better life experience to to not always be so arrogantly opinionated and sure of yourself, but to leave yourself open to what others with different views have to say. I think we’d all understand each other’s fandoms better if we express our opinions with sincerity, reasoning, and openness rather than flat-out putdowns and generalizations with no backing.
Hmm, interesting.
I haven’t encountered any elitists who put down people for not using legal streams or whatever. But as for the former category, 2 thoughts come to mind:
1. If it’s anything I’ve learnt, it’s that if you’re going to criticize an anime, do it right. Back up your claims and don’t mindlessly bash up a show because you didn’t like it. Be specific in the criticism and try to make your point without insulting or degrading the fans of the show. There is a trend that if you hate on a popular show (with valid or invalid criticism) then you’re automatically slotted in as an elitist. That’s not fair and it’s too judgmental.
2. The hate on the moe genre is not unfounded. The reason most people hate on it is because it has taken the industry by storm and its impact is felt in every anime. So if you don’t like moe, then you’re going to have a ton of anime each year that aren’t going to appeal to you. This probably makes the nostalgia factor pop up and go “Hey, all new anime suck!”
I totally agree with your #1 thought. If you say you don’t like a show, it’s best to say why with examples and what not, and make yourself look like a more respectable critic who knows what it is you’re putting down. Just saying you don’t like a show or that it sucks without expanding more isn’t taken seriously by me.
As for your #2 thought, it’s a good point, but there have always been common cliches and tropes in anime long before the moe one came around. I suspect there are many reasons why the moe trope in particular has gotten so much attention – anime is more easily accessible than it was before, Internet technology makes anime discussion easier than before, there are more non-Japanese anime fans than there were before, more anime is being produced each season than before – all these facts and more make any anime trope of the last decade stand out.
It’s easy to dismiss the elitists who don’t really know the genre they’re conspicuously elevating themselves above of course, because they’re Just Plain Wrong. It gets more complicated when the elitism is a form of judgementalism, someone does understand what it is they’re criticising, and they’re convinced watching it is a waste of time or will corrupt your character or you couldn’t possibly enjoy this if you were a right-thinking person or whatever, because you probably do need a least a little bit of judgementalism in your character simply to establish for yourself how you want to behave, and once you’ve got that, what deserves judgement and how it should be judged are not things you’ve got a chance of seeing agreement about.
I think the trick is appreciating how inadequate the information so many judgements are based on is. I’ve got some elitist instincts myself; they don’t hit anime, particularly since I can’t think of a genre I haven’t at least enjoyed something from, but when setting anime and some other stuff against the rest of television, there’s something inside me which wants to point at house-price-obsessed TV and shout “crass materialism!” But then I think of Mary Whitehouse (erm, British campaigner against sex and violence on TV, oh, and against disrespecting authority, and actually, the very idea that TV should ever be aimed at children in the first place, and…) pointing at all sorts of really good things and shouting criticisms which I know make absolutely no sense, and I notice that I don’t actually understand the sort of person who watches these property shows… which actually means I’m in no place to criticise them. They might actually be getting something very valuable, or it might be the inevitable consequence of something society needs to function.
Even if you have watched something, and can now legitimately hate it, you have to accept that TV communicates with different people in different ways, and a fan of the show might have actually seen completely different things to you. They might have, in effect, actually watched a completely different show. So they don’t really love something you quite reasonably hate, they just find something to love at the same place you found something bad. People are just different, and the results of this are complicated. And I guess that’s what it means to respect people’s differences, and ultimately, different tastes.
The other issue is easy, you just need to frame it right. If you ask whether the definition of a true fan should depend on what country you live and what the legislators there write and who has got the lobbyists/bribes in place; ultimately, what’s written on some bits of paper called “laws”, then it’s obviously ridiculous. Anime fandom has little to do with ceasing to watch DVDs on a Linux box when a DMCA-like law comes in. A good fan will just be someone who contributes what they can. And this will be very different for a teenager with no money and a guy with a well-paying job, and it will be very different for someone living in America, and someone living somewhere nothing is ever released. But the idea that the different capabilities of these people should mean they have different access to anime when getting it to the less fortunate has effectively zero cost? Such a system is clearly not 100% optimal.
What you said in your third paragraph greatly sums up what it all boils down to.
I think it’s important to have some things in life you feel are truths, especially in terms of values and morality. For example, I’m not a religious person and I can’t accept religious beliefs as truths. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to make harsh generalizations about people who are religious or all religions in general. Going down the line, there are some TV shows, movies, and even anime I truly feel are bad and can provide valid arguments for why. But I’m open to hearing other logical opposing viewpoints as well. So basically what I’m trying to say is that we all need some things to call “truths” for ourselves even if they seem like opinions to others. But it’s leaving that openness and acceptance to other views without jumping to conclusions or generalizing, that separates the elitists from non-elitists.
These are pretty much the reasons why I refuse to grade “objectively”. When it comes right down to it, there really is no such thing as something being objectively good or not. You merely have qualities that the majority of people would agree are good; that doesn’t mean anything when there are still people who will dislike whatever it is, and people who will like shows that lack those qualities. Something that’s objectively good would mean it’s unanimously agreed to be good, not just a majority.
Of course, even taking that into account, senselessly bashing someone else’s tastes is never cool. I mean, I get where the moe hate is coming from (I don’t really care for it myself either), there’s just so many shows each season that are either moe or ecchi or whatever. It’s to the point where even if you originally liked the genres or had no real complaints about them, it’s just an overload at this point.
I like ice cream, but if I eat way too much of it then I probably won’t even want to look at it ever again.
But, as you said, if there’s actual arguments backing up these claims, then that’s a completely different story. I love nothing more than the clashing and exchanging of ideas and perspectives.
You’re right that there really is nothing objectively bad or good. I believe that little truth in life is both a blessing and curse for the human race – on the one hand it makes us such an interesting race that can forever increase its knowledge and abilities, but on the other hand it makes it so that we can never truly understand each other and will always have the potential to fight about differing opinions.
I can understand people getting annoyed with moe – it happens sometimes with me when it’s really out of place in an otherwise non-moe series – but the elitists who make it out to be this horrible “cancer” of anime and that every series with cute girls in it is automatically placed under this vague stigma genre called “moe,” especially when they’ve watched little to no moe anime themselves, is just a harsh exaggeration.
This is why I try to watch (and complete) at least three shows from every genre, so I can justify my likes and dislikes. I”m one of those people who believes that you can’t TRULY judge a show unless you’ve seen the entire thing.
As an example, I’m might end up picking up OreImou and Nogizaka Haruka again so I can justify my comment that Welcome to the NHK! is the only good show about otakuism. Even though I’m probably going to detest both of them.
As you know, I do prefer artistic and intellectually stimulating anime and I hate moe pandering and plotless shows. But I don’t think I”m an elitist. I surprisingly took a strong liking to the slow paced slice of life series Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou. But I like it because of its interesting setting, its poignant storytelling, and its lack of moe kyun.
I’m trying to familiarize myself with as many different types of anime and from as many different decades as I can so I actually feel knowledgeable and firm about my anime opinions and preferences. But yeah, those who bash who’ve never actually seen a show first hand are dumb.
Heh, I don’t think you’re an elitist – you’re very particular in your anime tastes (unlike me who’s very easy to please) but you don’t make grandiose claims about anime and genres of anime you’re not familiar with (nor do you go around insulting fans of the anime you don’t like). You might put down a series you never completed, but you at least have reasons for why you dropped it and may even give it another try.
I’m always impressed that you’re willing to watch and complete anime you dislike from the get go. The fact that you do so in order to further your knowledge as a fan, despite that fact that you’re particular in your tastes, is quite admirable. I wish more people would do that.
“Elite” used to be a term of praise, not a synonym for snobbery or arrogance. Nowadays we use it in the adjectival and noun forms — elitist and elitism — to denounce people who think of themselves as too good for the rest of us. But it’s not true — to be an elite X means to be highly skilled, highly trained, and highly experienced in whatever X is. It’s like being a medical specialist in, say, brain surgery rather than being a general practitioner treating headaches. I honestly don’t think I’ve encountered an elite anime fan or reviewer, because it takes years of watching many different kinds of anime, doing some serious reflection and research, and it’s not something that the blogosphere has right now because it’s simply too new. I think elite anime fans would hate the elitist ones, because they know it’s not about knowing you’re better than the others — it’s about knowing more than other people and being willing to share that knowledge.
That’s interesting how the term “elitist” holds a different meaning than it used to. Another case of the Internet redefining words.
If we want to talk about elite anime fans rather than elitist ones, someone who pops into my head would be John from AnimeNation. But again, it’s hard to say how much anime one needs to have seen, and how much reflection on it they need to have done, in order to be considered elite. You’re right that most bloggers who follow the current anime don’t have enough knowledge to be elite…unless there’s a category for “elite anime blogger” rather than just “elite anime fan” ~_^
You make a good point about the use of I/me when making statements about a genre. I know I’ve upset a few people because what I wrote came off as a statement rather than an opinion. After learning technical writing in school, it was hard to get back to using “I” and “me”.
Heh, I’m actually the opposite in that I consciously try to soften my words so as not to sound too opinionated. So I use a lot of “I think,” “I feel,” “I believe,”it’s [insert adjective] to me,” and so on. My college professors didn’t like that because it made me sound unsure of myself – but it works fine for subjective blogging ;)
Elitism is one of the most irritating aspects about any fandom, anime related or not. It can be incredibly annoying to listen to fans who hate on certain series because they don’t measure up to their standards of intellectuality or storytelling. As you said, the recent backlash against “moe” anime is an excellent example of that.
I have no issue with people expressing different opinions; I do have an issue with people who go out of their way to rant and rave about things they don’t like, especially those who mock fans of certain series because of their perceived inferiority. For example, Gundam fans have been particularly bad about that over the years. Gundam did undeniably change in many fundamental ways, but too many fans bash on people who like the newer series. My ideal fanbase is one that respects all of it’s members including experienced as well as newer fans.
In my opinion, subjectivity is everything when it comes to anime, movies, books, etc. A work of fiction can be “objectively” good, but in the end it just means that it measures up to the standards of other works and the amount of enjoyment derived from it depends on the viewer.
The question about whether one can be a true fan if they don’t support the industry is indeed an interesting one. For one, the business about being a “true fan”, is a little bit ridiculous, if somebody likes something then they are automatically a fan. But if they never spend a dime, are they as dedicated as somebody who spent their own money to support the authors? I would say that the person who spends their own money to support the creators would tend to be more dedicated technically speaking, but in the end its not very relevant to me.
I personally have never bought an anime DVD set. I have watched anime on television and Netflix in the past, and bought a few plastic model kits based on mecha series though. A large part of me wants to support the creators as well as I can, but my habits are so firmly in place that it feels bizzare and unnecessary to buy a box set… perhaps when I am at a point in my life with more than just a small amount of disposable income I will feel differently.
Great thoughts as always.
I’m not much into Gundam but I do hear that old-school fans tend to bash the newer series, which for me is annoying since I’ve only watched the newer Gundams (Seed and 00) and I liked them. Elitism among Pokemon fans is similar in that fans of the old-school games/anime have this hatred of the newer Pokemon generations that I can’t understand – and that’s one franchise I’ve been dedicated to since day 1, and in my opinion it’s gotten better and better.
But yes, you’re right that everyone has different standards of enjoyment, and if you’re going to criticize something, at least have the decency to do so with reason and civility, without bringing in hate for people who have opposing tastes.
I have been trying to write an article like this but couldn’t find the right way to do it. This is perfect. The one thing I hate the most about nerd fandoms is Elitists all kinds no matter what, they just make life miserable for everyone. I am okay with people that disagree with my tastes and opinions those people are fun to be around and it makes for great discussions. It just has to be honest and not spiteful or elitist.
Also I am going to keep this quote “For an easily accessible hobby like anime, I think passion speaks louder than money.”
Thanks for reading, I’m glad you liked this post so much =D
I don’t mind having civilized debates with people of an opposing opinion. It can even be fun if both people are willing to listen and take into account what the other person said. It’s that “blind” bashing with little to back it up, that I can’t stand =/
You know, reading this post made me think that there’s some similarity between elitist behavior as you’ve defined it, and the behavior of intolerant fanpeople (mostly fangirls, in my experience) who explode at the thought of ANYONE not shipping their favorite pairing in any given series. It’s understandable that they like a certain pairing, just like it’s understandable that people may exclusively enjoy a specific genre of anime. However, that partiality most certainly does not give anyone the right to bash or degrade other people for supporting something that they don’t.
So you don’t like slash pairings? That’s fine, just don’t go telling someone else who does that they’re wrong for not sharing your opinion. Just like if you don’t like shoujo, then don’t antagonize those of us who do. If it comes up in a conversation, a polite “Oh, I’m not really interested in that genre/pairing; can we please not discuss it?” and perhaps a smile is a good way to deal with preferences in mixed company.
Anyway, it’s like the song says “It’s okay to not like things, but don’t be a jerk about it.” Personal preferences are no reason to go Godzilla on people who don’t share them with you. Tolerance is your friend. :D
But in short, I agree with you. You miss out on so many things and interesting people when you’re elitist in this sense. It’s a shame.
And I’m going to hush up now. Thank you for sharing~ ^ ^
I echo what you say in your first two paragraphs. I’m not into anime slash pairings myself, but if someone I’m talking to is into them, whether they’re a stranger or a friend, I’m not going to put down the thing they love right to their face just because I don’t share in it. I think a really open, approachable fan is someone who can share in other’s fandoms even if they’re not part of it themselves. At the most, I might try and give specific reasons for why I don’t support that pairing, but I’m not gonna say anything generalizing or insulting like “people who support this pairing are stupid” or anything like that.
Thanks for reading and commenting ^_^
Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, but their are better ways to express that opinion without being heavy-handed about it. The one thing that I think make most people sound “elitist” (well right out ignorant) is because they do not bother to explain themselves. I always try to make it point a to at least explain myself if I do not like something rather than saying that series “XXXX was awful” and not provide at least some subtext to back it up. Although, at the end of day, you can not really change someone’s opinion or way of thinking unless they decide it for themselves. Just another part of the territory, unfortunately the negative side.
Yes, I always try to explain myself whenever I judge something and not just make a flat-out statement with no backing. This is probably why I tend to write on and on and my posts end up being so long ;P
Anime is anime, it all has the potential to be good. About the only two genres that I actively avoid are ongoing shounen series (Following two a couple of years back was enough for me before they started running together) and shounen-ai, if only because of lack of interest in relationships of that kind.
I don’t make a large effort to expand my horizons, but neither do I say that I hate certain genres just because I’ve seen a show that I didn’t care for belonging to that genre. And to be fair, Gravitation was actually pretty decent.
We all have genres we like and don’t like, and that’s perfectly normal in any medium. But to go around bashing fans of a genre you don’t like, or making bold claims about a genre when you’ve only seen one or two series, just isn’t good for the kinship of the fandom, especially in a fandom like anime that’s already hard for the average person to accept. So I’m glad you don’t do that ^^,,,
Well, nowadays I can only find maybe one anime to watch though. I like anime that has a cool subject to revolve around. K-on for me just disappointed me because I thought it would be about bands. I thought it would have other rival bands in it. I thought wrong. It was just too cute for me, man!! Animation was great though. That’s all I can say for anime these days. Great animation. For me they should change it from K-on to Cake-on. Maybe if i see it dubbed, I’ll give it another go.
Nowadays I’m liking anime that makes me laugh. Like Mitsudomoe, Nichijou, Shin Chan, Mainichi Kaasan, Daily Lives of High School Boys, School Rumble, Sgt Frog, Full Metal Panic Fumuffu, Cromartie and Gintama. I like anime that has funny characters. I get what you are saying, Anime has a diverse audience so people should just find what they like and leave other to what they like. Great blog you have here Anime Yume. What a cute Chii avatar. I like that anime. I hope you continue to enjoy anime.
Now if only english dubs weren’t ignored like the plague by anime fans. Dubs can make it easier for for people to get into the anime plot better. Take it from me I didn’t touch most slice of life anime until the were dubbed. anime fan’s should stop with the subtitles elitism.
I can understand having expectations about K-ON. I personally found the first season more cute than funny, but the second season is a lot more humorous in my opinion. I’m a sucker for great animation, which is what also drew me to K-ON.
I didn’t mention dub vs sub elitism, but that’s certainly there too. I personally prefer subs but I can certainly enjoy good dubs and have nothing against people who are more into dubs. There can be lots of disagreement about what dubs are good and what dubs are not, but it’s nothing to get into heated arguments about.
Thanks for reading~ I’m glad you like my blog and Chi avatar =D
I dislike mecha anime for the sole reason that 95% of the time, there HAS to be melodramatic nonsense dominating over the robot battles and other fun stuff, like story, humor and usefulness as a character. It’s hard for me to explain but my gripe comes from the fact most mecha anime protagonists (Male ones in particular) are emo, which detracts my interest in mecha ANIME.
The only mecha show I’ve picked up and really am enjoying is Rinne no Lagrange. I haven’t enjoyed a mecha show this much since Symbionic Titan (CURSE YOU CN FOR CANCELLING THIS SHOW!) and the unbeatable Megas XLR!
Now does that mean I judge mecha anime fans and insult them for liking mecha anime? Heck no! I applaud them for enduring the whining and being able to enjoy what the genre has to offer.
Did I forget to mention how much I despise the human characters in Transformers cartoons/anime? that’s one of the reasons Beast Wars and Beast Machines are my favorite T shows: NO HUMANS!
In the end, my point is I will bash a show like MM! to no end but will I bash the person who enjoyed the show? No. I won’t understand why said person liked it but I won’t insult their 3 I’s because of it.
You think Amuro Ray is an emo, well prove it! I bet you never even watched the Char’s Counterattack movie to know his character development. You’re argument about mecha anime is invalid and overly biased. I also like the earlier Gundam shows, Fafner and Lagrange, so screw you. The way you bash mecha anime is just as ignorant as someone who hates Superman, but never reads the comics.