I’ve tackled the moe debate indirectly in previous posts, but I haven’t yet went head on with it. So here I go, a post of 1,500 words about why moe does not deserve the negative treatment that many Western anime fans give it…
The definition of “moe” itself is often a flaw in the arguments of anti-moe enthusiasts as there’s much disagreement about what anime/characters should be called “moe.” Is it only shows like K-ON! and Lucky Star, where the entire series revolves around cute female characters doing cute things? What if a show has just a few moe archetypes, like Haruhi, Railgun, and Toradora! for example, but otherwise is focused on different genres like sci-fi, action, or drama? How many moe characters, or how much focus on their cute aspects for that matter, does it take for an entire anime to be called a “moe” show? Not only that, but since moe is more of a feeling than anything else – a feeling of wanting to protect, support, or be intimate with (not necessarily sexually) a character – what’s moe and what isn’t naturally differs among fans. Someone might be moe for Shana, thus Shakugan no Shana would be a moe show for them. But there’s another fan who finds tsunderes distasteful and would rather watch gentler moe characters like Nagisa from Clannad. For this person, Shakugan no Shana wouldn’t be a moe show but Clannad would. And what about the fan who doesn’t feel moe for either and simply enjoys Shana for its pretty action and fantasy elements, and Clannad for its drama and romance? Could this person be accused of being “into moe” in the same way that the latter two are? There’s no unifying definition of moe that would answer these questions. Fans could make up their own of course, but it wouldn’t be nearly as concrete in the fandom as say, a list of what anime are shonen or mecha. Unlike other anime genres which are defined more by what themes and story elements are in the anime itself, moe depends on creating feeling, which is obviously harder to agree upon (if you even want to call moe a genre).
For convenience’s sake, the general consensus of moe is that it defines shows that revolve around “cute girls doing cute things in cute ways” or characters who are cute, clumsy, shy, etc., and would bring out feelings of wanting to support and protect them. But rather than blaming the Japanese companies for producing too many moe shows, or the fans who buy and support such shows, the roots of moe come from a big part of Japanese culture – “kawaisa,” or Japan’s fascination with “cuteness.” Anyone who’s been to Japan, or just seen photos of it, knows that cute animated characters are used everywhere in the country, from construction signs and business mascots to subway cards and even police boxes. The article about “kawaisa” on TV Tropes is very informative. One excerpt in particular helps show where the roots of moe lie:
“Just like being sexy and attractive is considered desirable for Western women, this [cuteness] is considered a desirable trait for a Japanese woman. Women in their twenties or even thirties might use a high-pitched voice simply because it sounds cute, despite the rest of the world finding it very creepy that childishness is considered a sexy thing.”
So moe and its idea of cuteness/childishness being a desirable trait, was not invented within niche otaku fandom but is very much a part of overall Japanese culture. Japanese businessmen with cute little anime characters on their business cards, or actresses on Japanese game shows talking and acting like moe characters, are not unusual. Anime creators making female characters moe is simply going along with Japan’s culture of cuteness. For Western fans who think moe sucks because a male audience should watch shows that are masculine, with women who are serious and sexy rather than cute and childish, are being ethnocentric. These people complain that moe is a “cancer that’s killing the anime market,” but it’s what fans want or it wouldn’t be profitable. Japanese companies are well aware of anime’s international success, but in most cases it’s still made for a Japanese audience first and foremost. If Japanese viewers would rather see cuteness than masculinity, that’s what will be made. But even so, there are still plenty of non-moe shows released each season too, and most of the moe shows that become very popular in Japan also become popular among Western. fans, so I don’t see how it’s such a terrible thing for the industry. If you’re gonna say that “moe shows suck because they’re only made to sell fan service goods to male otaku,” you should be prepared to say similar things like “mecha shows suck because they’re only made to sell robot figures to male otaku.” Anime is fundamentally a commercial product after all, so fans should just enjoy the series that match their tastes rather than despise the fact that all anime isn’t made in compliance with their expectations.
If I came up with an interpretation of moe hate, I think it boils down to this: as I’ve mentioned, Western culture is the opposite of Japan in the fact that male audiences are supposed to like masculine entertainment, with manly men and sexy women. Thus, when Western anime fans are confronted with the fact that their anime fan peers in Japan like shows revolving around cute, childish girls with little action or plot, it bothers them. They know anime is misunderstood in Western countries, so they want it to be intelligent and artistic so it will look good to other Westerners. So when shows like K-ON! or Hanamaru Kindergarten come into being, it angers them further because not only are these shows very non-masculine, they go against the image they’re trying to portray outside Japan of anime being mature and intelligent. I’m not saying Japan is blameless in the sexist connotations in some of its kawaisa aspects, I’m only saying that I think ethnocentrism is at least some part of moe hate.
Anti-moe fandom has come to a point where all one needs to do is see pictures from a certain anime with cute female characters and assume it’s a moe show. Let’s use Toradora! for example. Someone might read a short synopsis of it and see a picture of the three main girls doing something cute and assume it’s a moe/harem show. But anyone who’s seen Toradora! knows it’s quite a universal show full of tear-jerking and unpredictable drama and well-written character development. Could someone still find moe elements in it? Of course. But even if some fans are moe for Taiga and Minori, that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy Toradora! for its other aspects. Just because some fans like ogling ecchi fan art of the main female characters doesn’t mean the show has nothing else but moe going for it. Heck, there’s plenty of potential moe fan bait in shonen and mecha anime. Someone could be moe for Yin in Darker than Black or Horo in Spice and Wolf. But if you don’t feel that way, just enjoy what you do like about the anime. This is again because moe is a feeling – it can be present in any anime that has at least one cute character that fans feel the need to protect or support. If you don’t share in the feelings that fans have for characters, it’s not too hard to overlook it and like what the anime is mainly about. And if it bothers you that much, just stick to genres you like or don’t watch anime at all.
But honestly, when it comes down to it, what’s so horrible about enjoying cute things? Yes, I agree that fans who become sexually attracted to anime characters and carry dakimakuras around with them are going overboard, but for average fans, what’s wrong with wanting anime to be relaxing, soothing, innocent, and cute, rather than complex, suspenseful, dramatic, and intelligence-stimulating? Cuteness is very much a beloved part of anime as it is in Japanese culture in general because it has many positive associations that make people feel good – cheerfulness, peace, innocence, beauty – so I don’t see what’s wrong with people of differing ages and genders liking it as opposed to genres that are more laden with negativity. I’ve met many nice, intelligent fellow fans who enjoy moe anime as well as other genres, myself included, so it doesn’t mean that all fans who like K-ON! are antisocial, nerdy otaku who have a fetish for Mio. Like in the above Toradora! example, fans can enjoy other things about a show besides its moe. We all have our types of anime/characters that we like and don’t like, so there’s nothing wrong with disliking moe. I just feel it’s more appropriate to say that it’s not your taste rather than vehemently hating it and selfishly thinking it should be completely eradicated from the anime world.
>> Anime is fundamentally a commercial product after all, so fans should just enjoy the series that match their tastes rather than despise the fact that all anime isn’t made in compliance with their expectations.
One eloquent sentence that sums up the stupidity of most fan whining. Props to you.
Yes, as much as we don’t want to admit it, anime is made to make a profit first and foremost. Mecha series are different from moe series because their target audience is different – action and giant robots are more profitable to a certain audience than cute girls in slice-of-life stories, but in either case, the creators are still looking to make a profit.
That’s actually one of the quotes that I was most appalled by. As far as I’m concerned, a fanbase that is more critical of its medium is a BETTER fanbase. The more we sit back and accept what the anime industry creates, the more we become slaves to its marketing machine as it force-feeds us whatever’s the easiest thing to produce.
Yumeka, you are essentially suggesting that fans cease to be critical of the medium they enjoy, a statement that I strongly disagree with. By criticizing moé, I am not trying to express a childish frustration with what other fans enjoy — I am fighting (yes, fighting) for what I consider to be a better anime industry. Is that wrong? Do I not have a right to demand more of what I want from the industry that I funnel money into every year with my DVD/manga purchases?
I’m not saying you should stop being critical of the anime industry. Criticism is as much a part of the fandom as love is. There are plenty of things I’m critical about, such as “such-and-such company should have released this series this way” or “such-and-such anime should have included this and this,” etc,. I’m just saying that I think Western fans are very critical of the kind of anime the Japanese companies produce for their own (Japan’s) market. There’s nothing wrong with thinking that there should be more anime like Cowboy Bebop and Mushishi. I would like to see more as well. But the reason such series are so few and far between is because they’re simply not profitable enough in Japan. They’re still being made of course, if you’ve seen recent gems like Kemono no Souja Erin or Eden of the East, and some do become very successful. But the majority don’t sell well, and in the eyes of a business in these rough financial times, going with that is risky. Even if many Western fans supported these unique shows, I doubt it would be enough to influence the industry in Japan to favor them over more fan appealing shows. So all I’m saying is that I feel Western fans are overtly critical about this part of the industry, not that fans shouldn’t be critical at all about anything.
And I’m just wondering, what exactly are you fighting for? I know you’re fighting against illegal methods of acquiring anime, but are you also fighting against moe? Are you fighting for a time when moe shows like K-ON! are the minority and unique, intellectually stimulating anime like Ghost in the Shell are the majority? What about shows like Haruhi that could be moe but are otherwise very creative? The only way I can see that happening is if the majority of Japanese otaku decide that moe shows are distasteful and they instead lend more of their support to shows like Aoi Bungaku and Occult Academy. I’m curious how you propose Western fans fight for this. Are you saying just support the “good” shows and not the “moe” shows (even though people have different views of what moe is)? Would not supporting the (many) moe shows help the industry? Even though I personally enjoy K-ON! more than Satoshi Kon movies, should I spend more of my money on the latter so it shows that I’m supporting non-moe anime?
Well, this is a topic that has been argumented to death, but I try to give my point of view anyway.
I think that one of the biggers reasons to hate moe is that people tends to generalize way too much when it comes to, well, moe (the terminology).
You could ask what moe is to ten different people and you will probably hear ten differents answers, but it will almost always carry some negative connotation (mostly moe=cute air-head girls doing mindless, annoying, but cute things=mediocre plottless anime to please fans).
For example, a few weeks ago I was talking with some friends about the theme, and we arrived to the conclusion that, altough we had different “standars” (for lack of a better word) to catalogue a show as moe, we agreed that said shows were mostly character-driven, as opossed to a story-driven anime, but with little emphasis put on their (the characters) progression and development through the show. To use a fairly well known example, we have K-On!, wich is, should I say, the standar for moe-show these days. An almost non-exitent plot, characters that (at first) seems to have the same personality that countless of others characters have, and, most of all, they’re super cute. But, is this bad? Well, although a lot of fans would say yes because, among others, of the reasons I have said, I would say that no, is not, If you’re looking for a complex story and complex character relations and symbolism and layers of meaning, etc, you’re not in the right place (remember I’m talking about moe shows as a whole and not about moe characters individualy). As you said, these are shows to relax with, shows where you can just let yourself enjoy with little mental effort. And that is not a bad thing.
I think I dragged a bit, but my point is that an anime doesn’t need a superb story and cast to be enjoyable. It needs to have good character chemistry, and is in this department where moe and/or slice of life shows should be jugded. So, to conclude, In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with liking these kind of anime, with liking cute characters that don’t seem to fit with the Western Culture of today. You made a good point about the two different realities between Japanese culture and the rest of the world, between the cuteness and the sexyness that domains the media.
Excelent article, very insightfull and pretty long too!
(Sorry for my english!)
Thanks for the input =) I agree, there’s no law that says anime has to always be mature, creative, and intellectually stimulating. It’s supposed to be entertaining. Not everyone is entertained by deep, complex stories. Some fans just want to relax with the soothing cuteness and light little antics that such shows as K-ON! provide. This character-driven theme makes anime even more various in terms of genre and potential audience. Yes, obviously some hardcore otaku develop creepy obsessions with moe characters, but honestly it could happen with any anime character in any genre. Just because a few people take it too far doesn’t mean moe should be taken away from the many fans who love it non-creepily.
I guess you have read my editorial in defense of moe… I agree with the points made, the Japanese culture puts emphasis on cuteness… It’s quite apparent in the culture including anime. Moe doesn’t mean that a show is bad, but it’s usually not looked at since the story overshadows it. For example, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha has cute young girls, but pretty epic battles between monsters and stuff. It’s popular since it has an interesting story, not because of the moe it has…
Hater and elitists who hate moe have manage to make me really angry. The continued bullying from them have drove me off the edge. I can only take so much until I get really angry and hate the person. Also, their points are merely opinions or have a strong feeling of hate that I don’t see any validity of it. Its like saying that X genre sucks for a reason that isn’t true. Proving an argument against a genre is one thing, but spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) and false information isn’t.
I just can’t see why they just ignore it and just stick to the genre they enjoy the most… I guess they like to seek attention so people would get angry at them.
Yes, your post about this subject was good as well =) Moe characters have simply become another addition to anime archetypes, along with bishonen, tsunderes, shouta, and the like. Anime has these archetypes because it’s made to be profitable entertainment, and if this is what fans want, this is what they’ll get. Just because a show has an anime archetype that you hate doesn’t automatically mean a show is all about that archetype, as your example with Nanoha suggests. But if you really can’t stand that archetype, then just watch anime that don’t have it instead of spreading your flaming and hating to other fans who like the genre and just want to enjoy it in peace.
I do believe a good point is made that the Western hate is related to trying to make anime more “mature” than it needs to be.
As an example, the folks who once made Newtype USA complained that Japan stopped making shows that appeal to Americans, just when there was an attempt to break into Americam main stream. And “moe” is one of those things that just couldn’t be marketed to the mainstream Americans. They wanted GitS, Cowboy Bebop, that kind of shows. But Japan doesn’t make those kinds of things all day.
It boils down to “Why didn’t Japan make things WE like!”. A very childish statement. Because in the end, what the American majority likes is already on their TVs, made by their own studios. The same way Anime companies make what their Japanese fanbase likes.
Excellent point. Purely character-driven, moe-type shows are simply a genre that’s never existed in the West and would have virtually no audience (you think the average American man would be caught dead watching Lucky Star without fear of what his peers would think?) Like I’ve said, it’s a form of ethnocentrism to think that Japan should stick to making mature anime like Cowboy Bebop and Mushishi because that’s what would be profitable in the West instead of what’s profitable in Japan. Even if moe is the more dominant style in anime in recent years, there are still plenty of non-moe shows released each season, so it’s not some insidious anti-Western take-over or anything. Just enjoy the genres you want is what it comes down to.
There’s another big complaint that’s similar to the (kind of invalid) anime-should-be-more-American argument: the idea that anime isn’t for general audiences anymore. You might look at modern robot shows, which are very niche, but robot shows of the 1970s and part of the ’80s were created for general audiences — mostly children. These kids would later grow up to become anime consumers (but this time with disposable income).
However, a glut of moé means that anime is no longer focusing on making general audience super robot shows (or even other general audience genres), but is instead focusing on titles for people in their 20s or 30s who are already anime fans. That’s unhealthy, especially if moé is very successful (as Yumeka claims). A successful fad that doesn’t create new fans will bear poison fruit down the line when the industry finds that there aren’t enough new fans to support the industry. If you think anime is in trouble financially right now, just you wait.
From my experiences in and study of Japan, all anime other than Studio Ghibli and long-running family shows like Pokemon and One Piece, have always been niche. Back in the day, mecha shows were the big hits among otaku. Now moe shows are. But in both times, non-mainstream anime in general was niche and not aimed towards average Japanese people. But there are still plenty of kids anime on Japanese TV nowadays, as well as shonen, seinen, and shojo manga, to bring in potential new fans, so I don’t see how it’s any different when anime in general has always been a niche market in Japan.
It might seem different to Western fans because moe rather than mecha has become the new trend for Japanese otaku, and it’s one of the few anime genres that isn’t marketable in the West. But again, companies are going by what’s appealing to Japanese fans. As I’ve explained in the post, cuteness is very marketable in Japan while it isn’t in the U.S.
But I think there are plenty of so-called moe shows (again, I don’t know how you define a show as moe), like Toradora!, that have potential in mainstream America. Looking at your MAL list, you’ve hardly seen any anime with moe elements, so how could you know their potential and understand their appeal? Even if shows like Toradora! have a few moe elements that average Americans couldn’t relate to, they’re mostly made up of universal themes. And there’s still plenty of Adult Swim-like shows being made, such as Darker than Black and Shikabane Hime, that could bring in new anime fans. I feel that not having anime on TV in America anymore is one reason for lack of new fans, which isn’t the fault of moe’s profitability in Japan.
I think you really hit the nail on the head when you spoke about the reasons typically at the heart of most “moe critics”. It’s usually a combination of:
a) I don’t know what moe is, but I sure don’t like a lot of what I see in (late night) anime these days, and I hear that moe word brandished around a lot for shows I don’t like, so that must be the problem, and
b) I find the behaviour of a lot of the people who enjoy this “moe anime” stuff to be really embarrassing, and I don’t want people to associate me with that behaviour just because I like anime.
This is typically because they’re more concerned with public perception of anime than with their own personal/selfish enjoyment. The counter-argument is that people’s “flamboyance” about their “personal enjoyment” is interfering with the ability of these other fans to enjoy anime the way they’d like (in a public way, that can be discussed openly in society). But I think this very idea that “adults enjoying anime could be publicly acceptable” is itself a foreign concept to the anime industry, so there’s a fundamental cultural mismatch at play. There’s a portion of English fandom who’s perfectly content to enjoy anime simply because they enjoy it (the rest of society be damned), and another portion that doesn’t want to be forced to keep their enjoyment private… and these two points of view are at odds. One side says “if I can just whitewash over the shady/seedy sides of the industry, people won’t think I’m weird!” and the other says “how dare you try to interfere with the aspects of the industry I find enjoyable!”
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who are most vocally opposed to “moe” live their anime fandom in a very public way — their real names and lives are often unavoidably tied to anime. So coming out against all that “seedy stuff” in a very public way is a way of protecting their public image. I know I certainly take a lot of comfort in this convenient handle because I don’t think I’d want everyone who knows me in real life to be aware of everything I’m interested in. (Not so much because I’m ashamed of it, but because it’d certainly take a lot of explaining to the uninitiated and the prejudiced…) I personally think that my hobbies are a private, personal thing, but I understand that my (and our) posting about this private, personal hobby on the Internet is making it no longer private. I’m not sure that I could really truly understand the “anti-moe” argument unless I were prepared to truly “go public” with my fandom, and not just on the Internet. Thankfully, most of us probably don’t have to face that problem.
P.S. I should probably also say there is also a portion of fandom who believes “if they made less shows that I don’t like, they’d make more shows I like”. Some of those making anti-moe arguments fall under that line of logic, but it’s so fundamentally illogical that it’s not worth much discussion. They make what they make because it sells; if they made less of what sells, they wouldn’t make more of what sells less… and the things that sell less wouldn’t necessarily sell more because they’re making less of what sells more now. The whole argument just makes your head spin with its silliness, so that argument can be safely ignored.
As always, you’ve brought up some excellent points. I agree that a lot of moe hate comes from fear of being associated with the stereotypical creepy otaku who has a fetish for 2D girls. It does indeed come down to those who are willing to like what they like in spite of the connotations it may convey, i.e., I don’t want to be associated with the creepy otaku who carries a dakimakura of Mio around, but that’s not gonna stop me from liking K-ON! for my own reasons, versus those who will automatically label any anime in a negative way if it’s associated with this stereotyped otaku. I think you’re right that the latter is more public with their hobby and wants it to make a good impression on Westerners who are not familiar with it. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to show non-fans the good side of anime so they’ll think positively about it (I’ve done this myself). But a real fan shouldn’t condemn all genres that their fellow fans like just because it may interfere with the flawless picture of anime that they’re trying to publicly convey.
One thing I think is significant is that the only time I remember people actually agreeing what it is, was when a bunch of us on Animesuki were figuring out that the English language just doesn’t give you the words to easily describe it.
Something that lacks a definition becomes an easy scapegoat for anything you don’t like, since it’s difficult for people to point out how wrongheaded you’re being. So when your average moe-hater attacks K-ON for its moe, they claim to be attacking it for its moe, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it criticised for giving people the warm fuzzies. They actually tend to criticise it for its lack of plot and slow (thought to be absent) character development. Criticising it for being in the “slice-of-life” genre, basically. But thinking it’s moe that they’re criticising, because that allows them to link it to things they find disgusting. Since criticising slice-of-life directly makes it obvious you’re just talking about personal tastes.
Really, I don’t think there actually is such a thing as a moe show. In the sense of; take a mecha show, say, Gurren-Lagann, and remove the mecha. You’re left with an empty gaping hole in the programme. Take K-ON and remove the moe. And you’re left with a perfectly good show. Because I enjoy K-ON, but I don’t feel moe for anyone in it. (I do think I know what it is; there are three characters whom I have experienced moe for, but none of them are in K-ON.) It’s a good slice-of-life show in its own right.
Thanks for the input.
Yes, because “moe” is such a vague word but is usually associated with stereotyped creepy otaku, it’s an easy reason for moe haters to automatically label and disregard a show despite any other factors it may have. Like you said, the fact that shows like K-ON! are not only moe, but are plot-less slice-of-life shows, is again strikes against it in the eyes of Western fans to whom this genre is unheard of. Watching a cute character-driven show without a plot is something you won’t see in Western culture, making it easier for haters to pick on it because it’s so different from the action-packed, masculine shows they associate with male viewers. Again, it’s a matter of turning personal taste into fact and not accepting a genre that goes against your culture’s expectations.
Moe… a genre of anime that I have watched and found just as interesting as any other genre. Personally I don’t quite understand the whole fan division on the subject of moe. (Although I find the whole sexual attraction to anime characters rather disturbing. But that is another train of thought.)
I am a very bi-polar (possibly tri-polar?) person. And so when I watch anime it reflects on this. One day I might feel like watching “Haruhi Suzimiya” other days I might get the urge to watch “Monster”.
I think the only reason people argue about Moe is because it has been a success, although I have not watched them I have heard nothing but good things for K-ON and Lucky Star. But they could be considered “pure” Moe as that is the main element, but as you mentioned there are many other genres that make up an anime, moe is just a part of it all.
(Have I been rambling? I think I have. Oh well.)
Yes, sexual attraction to anime characters is creepy, and that’s a big aspect that moe haters use. They generalize it too much, automatically assuming that something like K-ON! only exists to bolster the fetishes of these creepy otaku, ignoring the fact that thousands of other fans love these shows for different, non-creepy reasons. Anything successful always breeds hate, and like you said, when these haters see what a success moe shows have been, they hate it even more. This again goes back to the childish belief that only the deep, mature anime that Western fans like should be made, disregarding the fact that anime is made for Japan first, and cuteness is okay for male audiences to like.
I think western fans don’t really get a say on this, regardless if they hate moe. I mean, you can put the western fans’ hate on moe in the same level as how Japanese fans don’t find western cartoons and comics interesting. The only difference is that the Japanese don’t hate western material, whereas western fans, demanding as they are, would loathe something that would not fare well to their tastes.
The feeling is mutual, therefore defending or bashing moe is unnecessary.
Good point. It does come down to culture clashing. But I think what angers moe haters in addition to the fact that moe doesn’t match their elitist taste of what anime should be, is the fact that many of their fellow Western fans like it as well. It’s easy to let the hate go if only Japanese otaku that reside in a distant land like it, but because moe has found popularity among Western fans as well, it’s harder to keep the hate in check.
Like others have said, I agree that the term “moe” is used a lot as a catch-all term for “what I don’t like” about a show rather than going into detail. I think fans see sometimes how pro-active the Japanese fans are (such as celebrating a fictional character’s birthday) and don’t want to be seen as that type of fan. That can been seen as a slight cultural issue. I’ve seen fans celebrate idol, celebrity, and athlete birthdays around the world, and when it’s carried over to anime, it’s somehow seen in a negative light.
We sometimes forget the reason to watch something: it’s enjoyable in some way. There’s still many different shows coming out each season, not to mention OVAs or movies. We’re exposed to more shows coming over each season and I think therein lies the problem. You’ve mentioned before about how you became an anime fan throughout the times, and that’s been a common evolution (though with different shows) for others. When I think back to what anime I heard about growing up, I think of shows that would be considered “shounen”, “mecha”, and more action-oriented than the bigger names today. Those seasons may have had shows that had slice-of-life focus, but it wasn’t carried internationally like the others and thus people don’t know that these shows have always existed.
What I’m curious about would be a line of thought about how anime has grown up with the “otaku” in Japan. Most of them would be in their 20s-30s and their tastes have likely changed over time. Shows that appealed to them when they were young (like the Dragonball and Sailor Moon series) may not appeal to them anymore and thus that genre wouldn’t sell anymore. Afterall, that’s the crux of the issue: if you like a show and want to see more of it, support it. If you don’t, you don’t support it and just ignore people talking about it.
“We sometimes forget the reason to watch something: it’s enjoyable in some way.”
You’re damn right. I think that people tend to overanalyze anime, which is not bad by itself, but forget about the main reason they are watching anime: entertainment.
People should not have to justify why they like a determinate show/trait/character/whatever (in this case moe), because that’s purely subjetive; plain and simple, it just appeals to the person.
I think a lot of the discord doesn’t come from the idea of being a proactive fan so much as being a proactive fan of fictional characters. This again goes back to different ideas about animation that Japan and the West have.
Slice-of-life anime have always been around, and some of the original moe characters – Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura, Sasami from Tenchi Muyo!, and Shinobu from Love Hina to name a few – came around in the late 90s/early 2000s. But in these early cases, moe was not nearly as emphasized as it is now. The fact that moe is so different from any form of Western entertainment, together with the fact that it’s now popular, and naturally anything that becomes really popular will also develop a lot of hate, are two reasons for its negativity in the West.
I agree with all the points raised by you and the earlier commentators. What I’m curious about is the extent of anti-moe sentiment in the US anime community. I haven’t actually come across any extended polemic against moe in the blogs I’ve read, but maybe that’s because the bloggers I follow are generally fine with moe. Someone else mentioned that a few people writing editorials or reviews for certain well-known anime news websites (not blogs) have been putting down moe series, but I haven’t come across them (again, maybe I haven’t looked hard enough, not that I really want to expend the energy). Do you see anti-moeness expressed more in comments on people’s reviews of moe series, or is it something that’s “in the air” (so to speak) in the ani-blogosphere?
On my part, this season I’m watching OreImo — which is full of moe — and Iron Man — which has Tony Stark, one of the Manliest Men of Marvel — and I’m enjoying them both for different reasons, so I don’t really get the “more moe equals less manliness in anime” reasoning. Hey, if anime masculinity can be so easily overshadowed by moeness, then it’s not very manly in the first place, is it?
Just to point out,this is really unimportant,that was actually 1518 words
I’m more impressed that you counted than anything else :)
That’s weird ’cause I put the post into Word and it said I have 1,500 exactly (starting from the first word “I’ve” to the last “world.”)
I hate it when I have nothing more to say in a reply than “I agree with XXX” but… *sigh*
Just about everything everyone has said has been good stuff. One of my best friends (the one who got me into anime actually), is a rabid hater of moe. I’ve always been too intimidated by her… well, her anime-ness to argue with her about it. But this is all sensibly worded stuff. :P I’m ever so bad with the word making, haha. I don’t see why people can’t all get along about this kind of stuff though.
Take myself, for example. I hate reality tv shows. But that’s a personal thing. Some people find that kind of person-drama to be entertaining. I’m friends with those kinds of people and I never get all up in arms about it. Nobody is forcing me to watch it. Nobody is forcing people to watch moe. They should just get over themselves.
Just discovered this blog, it’s pretty great, you know? But…:
“…so it doesn’t mean that all fans who like K-ON! are antisocial, nerdy otaku who have a fetish for Mio…”
I don’t have a fetish for Mio. I have a fetish for AZUSA. No actually I’m not a K-On fan at all, but…:
“…the stereotypical creepy otaku who has a fetish for 2D girls…”
Creepy? Right, I guess that’s true. TT_TT I’m a freak among freaks, and I don’t even really fit in with the other 2D lovers that much either. What can I say?? Geez.
I love Moe :) but I do go by your 1st definition. The one that states a character you feel attached to and want to protect. Someone like Miss Honda from Fruits Basket is a Moe character for me. She’s pretty naive, but extremely nice you just want to make sure she’s ok at all times.
I read that same article you posted about “Kawaisa”, and that helped me understand anime a lot more. After reading that, I can watch anime and understand the context a little better.
But yeah… We’ve always been told that boys play with little toy cars, and girls play with dolls since we were little, so it’s hard to overcome I guess. But it’s kind of fun to see all the rage over moe that ensues sometimes :)
I totally agree with your last paragraph. If you enjoy it, who cares if it’s cute? You have to enjoy what you like regardless of what other people think of it. Be true to yourself and you’ll live a happy life. After all, you’ll be living with yourself much more than with anyone else, so why not spoil yourself a little?
I will admit that I’m completely disregarding Japan’s culture when I say, my reasons for disliking moe is because winy little girls with high pitched voices and helpless demeanors is annoying as all hell. Its just what’s attractive to them. But the entire issue is changes when they’re being used in a sexual light. A good example. Kodomo no Jikan. Sexualizing children is not funny, nor is it adorable. It’s downright disgusting. And even is they claim a certain ‘moe’ character is of age, they still don’t look it, so the excuse is as good as bullshit. :/