In a week and a half from now, my gig as an anime enrichment teacher for the local YMCA will come to an end. After spending nine months at thirteen different elementary schools and experiencing well over 200 kids’ reactions to anime I’ve shown them, I’ve come to an interesting realization…
It started with this one reoccurring situation in just about all the schools I’ve been to – the kids make a major distinction between what shows are for girls and what shows are for boys (they also make just as harsh a distinction between which characters are “good guys” and which are “bad guys,” but that’s a topic for another day). Any show with a lot of female characters was automatically classified as “for girls” in their minds, and likewise for the shows with a lot of male characters. Though the girls didn’t really complain when I talked about “boy anime,” many of the boys would groan and cover their eyes whenever I showed pictures or clips of shojo anime (even though I tried to explain to them that it’s okay for boys and girls to like each other’s shows). Of course, their reactions are only natural since they’re at that age where each gender thinks the other (and all things associated with it) are icky. But when it comes to anime, it got me thinking about a deeper implication.
I could have said to the potential otaku boys who like Pokemon, Naruto, and Yu-Gi-Oh!, yet cringe at the sight of any girly-looking female characters, “You feel this way now, but ten years from now you may be enjoying these so-called ‘girly’ shows like K-ON! and Clannad.” Of course I wasn’t about to discuss with them how anime featuring all or mostly female characters usually have a larger male fanbase in Japan. But what piqued my interest, and what I’m pointing out in this post, is that the definition of what males and female are supposed to like when it comes to TV shows, movies, games, and other forms of animation, at least here in America, has drastically changed, with some thanks due to anime.
I don’t have enough experience with this subject in Japan to discuss it in as much detail, but for America, the kids’ stark distinction between what’s masculine and feminine as far as animation, can be traced back many years. Even more so than today, it was expected that boys like masculine things – action, adventure, sci-fi, etc., and thus cartoons, comics, and video games featuring wish-fulfilling male characters that act within these themes are what they like. Meanwhile, girls were expected to like feminine things – prettiness and cuteness, romance with handsome “princes,” etc., and thus they’d like cartoons and games that feature wish-fulfilling female characters within these themes.
If Bleach existed fifty years ago, would it have a female fan following like it has today?
However, as anime has become more popular in America, I’ve noticed a growing change when it comes to what guys and girls are supposed to like in their animation. Like my aforementioned example with K-ON! and Clannad, in anime fandom nowadays you’re just as likely to find guys who love female-centered shows like Ichigo Mashimaro, Pretty Cure, or Kimi ni Todoke (not necessarily in a creepy, sexual way mind you), as you are to find guys who like masculine anime like Bleach and Gurren Lagann. And likewise, you’re just as likely to find girls who like the action, gore, and fantasy in Naruto, Darker than Black, and Hellsing, as you are to find those who gush over cuteness and pretty boys in Cardcaptor Sakura and Hetalia.
From what I’ve seen, though perhaps it’s not the main instigator, anime has definitely been a contributor to breaking the tradition of what American guys and girls like when it comes to animation and games. In anime fandom, instead of having posters of masculine TV heroes and playing action-packed video games, it’s not unusual for guys to have posters and figures of cute (non-sexual) girls and to play pretty, romantic gal games. It’s also not strange for girls in the fandom to condemn anything “girly” and to seek out only anime and games with male-oriented themes.
Would anyone not familiar with anime/Japanese culture even think that Lucky Star is targeted toward male young adults?
We’ve certainly come a long way since the days when only the most geeky guys were known to indulge in comic books and other forms of fiction past the age of ten, and female geeks were pretty much nonexistent. Having had limited experience living in Japanese culture, I can’t say if it’s been the same for them, but I believe they may be ahead of us with all of their cute cartoon mascots on even magazines and advertisements aimed at adult men. But in America, anything goes nowadays with the variety of anime, manga, games, and fiction works out there, with girls liking gore and action and guys liking cute and emotional. The strict gender roles that were in place since less than fifty years ago have faded for the most part. While it didn’t do it alone, I believe anyone who wants to experience this “revolution” at its fullest needs to look no further than the variety of people and anime series in the fandom.
Related post: Anime preferences divided within gender
>>female-centered shows like Ichigo Mashimaro
Ichigo Mashimaro is shounen, yo. It’s published in the same magazine as Gunslinger Girl, I believe. The magazine’s motto is ‘manga about young girls for young boys’ or something like that.
I didn’t speak to a single girl of my own will until I was about 15, so girls were always a pretty alien concept to me. Stuff like Sailor Moon was pretty definitively ‘gay’ to me, to be avoided at all costs. I didn’t get into the ultra-masculine stuff like DBZ because I liked characters I could relate to as a scrawny, long-haired little boy. That’s why my early days of anime were all about Kenshin and Inuyasha (see the connection?) and I always liked younger characters who were very intelligent (like myself).
After haruhi got me back into anime, I started exploring the other shows of it’s ilk, and I did so undercover. I was so embarrassed about watching shows with all-female casts that I would only watch anime in the times when everyone was either asleep or not home (doesn’t help I didn’t have a comp in my room back then, and I wouldn’t start watching during the day until I did.) Even when I got the comp in my room, for a long time I would like pause or hide the episode I was watching when someone entered the room because I was scared of what they’d think.
Eventually, though, I literally just… forgot. It’s not that I was less paranoid, but I was so obsessed that I forgot to hide it anymore. And then I started putting up Megami posters and that was the end of that, lol.
So yeah, I think boys can get into girly stuff, but I think that unless they were of a pretty open/comfortable upbringing, it probably takes some work. I know for one that just because I was into moe, didn’t mean I took less than a couple years to tolerate real mahou shoujo lol.
@ digital boy
I know Ichigo Mashimaro is shonen – what I meant by “female-centered” is that there’s all or mostly female characters in the series. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Thanks for sharing your story. I’m glad you no longer hide your interest in certain anime =) I think it’s much less embarrassing for girls to like masculine things as opposed to boys liking feminine things, for example, a girl is less likely to be made fun of for having a Bleach picture on her school notebook as opposed to a boy having a Lucky Star picture on his notebook. I wonder why that is.
I still feel really awkward when anyone other than friends or family has to come into my room for whatever reason and see my walls covered in anime. But I’m slowly getting over it.
I agree that gender lines have become more flexible here in the U.S., as far as entertainment preferences go, but I would say it still has a long way to go compared with anime and manga in Japan.
One example is with reverse harem series like Ouran or Hakuouki. That girls and women like to look at attractive men, like boys and men look at attractive women, isn’t acknowledged in American entertainment whatsoever. It seems a small thing, but in a sense, it’s not so small. It indicates (to me, anyway) that American movie and TV executives are still uncomfortable with this rather basic concept – that women like to look, too. This is sexism, in other words. At least in Japan, it’s recognized that girls and women have this desire, and this desire is indulged. The fans are happy, the producers make money. Possibly at some point, Hollywood may yet wake up and smell the coffee on this issue. ;)
@ Jan
That’s a really good point that Japan may indeed be ahead of us in that respect. Just as they have reverse harem anime, they also have host clubs as well as maid cafes. But I think we’re making small progress with some new TV shows and movies that feature attractive actors whom girls would want to look at. But it’s still a long way away from the emphasis on sexy women in many Hollywood films.
What a great gig you got!
How old are your students?
How large are the groups you speak to?
I’m willing to bet that a certain amount of gender-normative behaviour you’re seeing (yuck – girly! Ew, boy cooties!) is emphasized by the size of the group. One-on-one, or in groups of two or three, you might get a wider range of opinions being volunteered –
“Of course I wasn’t about to discuss with them how anime featuring all or mostly female characters usually have a larger male fanbase in Japan.”
Oh, but you should have! :)
Fascinating stuff. What ojisan said is true, also– I remember rampant denial when it came to watching Sailor Moon.
It depends on how you were brought up I guess. I have never like girlish thing and shunted anime like chobit or sailor moon. I’m all for seinen and shounen. Occasional slice of life is okay too but no shoujo please.
@ ojisan
My students are in elementary school, so they range from about 5 to 11 years old. As for class size, some of the childcare sites have more kids than others (though they’re divided into two classes by age). It could be anywhere from less than 10 to over 20 kids per class.
Yes, group size, and thus more peer pressure, could definitely be a factor. But I’ve noticed that certain kids will always act that way even in smaller groups. So I think it has more to do with the kids themselves and how they’re brought up.
@ 2DT
LOL, maybe if they were high school kids I would have XD
Like I said to digital boy, I think guys tend to be more pressured into liking only masculine things as opposed to girls. I liked a lot of boy things when I was a kid but I never felt embarrassed about it in front of other girls, at least until I became a teenager. For me the peer pressure didn’t start until my second year of middle school.
@ kluxorious
Although I watch a variety of anime, from gory to cutesy, my favorites tend to be the ones that have a larger male following, like seinen and shonen. I was into both girl things and boy things throughout my childhood (liked everything from Littlest Pet Shop to Attack Pack Hot Wheels), so I guess I’m still like that =)
Unfortunately it’s not only kids who look at certain anime and condemn it for being “girly”. Non-anime fans seeing “moe” shows for example are likely to think it’s either for kids or girls. It’s a tough misconception to change, which is too bad, as some of the shows are actually better/meant for for teenage and above (Clannad for example).
I agree that gender trends are disappearing in anime, though I think that it’s part of a larger trend away from specific gender roles in the past few decades. Yet I do feel that along with this move away from specific gender trends, there might be separate rationales guiding these trends. Basically, why does girlish anime appeal now to boys and why does masculine anime appeal now to girls? I believe that there are multiple explanations, but I see two major interpretations in both. In the past, girls were definitely encouraged to do more “girly” activites mostly because they were intended to be conformist to the “proper lady” tradition.
But now, why do girls watch masculine anime? The way I see it, the possibilities range from girls stepping outside their general roles and becoming more masculine to girls embodying the “Twilight effect” as I call it, or the female encompassing of their gender roles and descending further into their reliance on a “White Knight” type character, whether that character is good or bad. I think these are both valid interpretations, and I think that how we ultimately interpret the rationale behind the blurring of gender trends determines whether we find this trend positive or negative.
I think it’s a combination of both elements, which is at once both concerning, but also a sign of progress.
What the hell are you talking about. Moe anime is for adults, like Playboy TV. It was born out of the longing of many Japanese men for the old days when women were cute and innocent, instead of aggressive and manipulative bitches like you find in spades in modern day Tokyo. If K-On! were real, the girls would have ample sexual experience, a foul mouth, and at least one of them would be involved in enjo kousai.
The chances of a child who still plays with toys of understanding that are slimmer than said child enjoying a hardcore German porno, and even with an adult you can’t expect him to extract all that information from a few promotional images that look like something from Hello Kitty.
Most anime, and certainly everything usually discussed on anime boards and blogs, is aimed at teenagers and young adults. There’s no western equivalent for it. It’s the same target audience as Buffy the vampire slayer or a Rockstar’s videogame.
Meanwhile, the anime intended for kids is exactly the same as always: “Battle Spirits”, “Kiruminzuu”, “Beyblade”, “Sugar Bunnies”, and all the other crap that anime blogs rarely talk about, but ends up in many TV stations around the world.
Some mahou shoujos can manage to be interesting for boys if they feature enough action and downplay all the girly talk about shopping and boyfriends. Action or fighting anime can include cute sidekicks (Gash Bell) or more elaborate characters interactions. This is perfectly normal and calculated and shouldn’t surprise anyone.
@ Prooof
It is a tough misconception to change. In America at least, we’re just not used to the fact that guys would be interested in light, cute, emotional shows, especially animated ones.
@ Mystlord
That’s a good point. From my experience, girls watch shonen or other masculine shows because they like action/fighting/fantasy, OR they like seeing cool/hot guys (and some for both reasons of course). The latter would probably lean more towards your “Twilight effect” and “White Knight” concepts. The former however, may lean more towards the opposite idea of girls stepping outside gender roles – they’re watching the shows for the same reasons guys are and not because they’re interested in the sexy guys.
@ im12yearsoldandwhatisthis
I didn’t say moe was not for adults. One of the points I made actually was that I could not explain it to kids precisely because they wouldn’t understand the concept of why adult men would like it.
From my experience in Japan, I still see plenty of girls who act like traditional women. I know that’s changing, and as you say, that could be a contributing factor to what you said in your first paragraph.
Yes, teenagers and young adults are the target audience for most anime and we don’t have any Western animation equivalent. Most kids anime do follow similar structures, especially the ones used to promote games and toys, but there are some such as One Piece and Naruto that attract a steady following of adult fans because of their other elements.
What you say about mahou shojo is similar to shonen anime that’s come out in the past decade or so. Instead of having unattractive, muscular men as the main characters, we now have attractive “bishonen” heroes like Kenshin, Ichigo, and Inuyasha in order to appeal to a potential female audience.
I don’t know how much anime has contributed to the loosening of the traditional, binary gender roles in America, honestly. Anime is still a very niche hobby, even though it is growing in popularity.
I think that the feminist movement of the 70s and the riotgrrl/girl power movement of the 90s was what really contributed to the acceptance of nontraditional gender interests in the United States. Anime may have played a role, especially with the popularity of Sailor Moon, a series in which the female lead battled villains every week. But I think the fact is that Americans today have less rigid ideas about what girls and boys must like and do and think due to the changing cultural values and roles of women.
We’ve got a long way to go, though, and I think Japan has ever further. They may have lots of awesome, creative anime that break down gender barriers, but in real life, Japanese women face a very strict set of social norms.
I like your example of the kids you teach – that sounds like an awesome gig! I think it takes people like you to teach the next generation that there is no reason to distinguish between what girls and boys “should” like!
I mostly enjoy stuff like K-ON, Clannad and one of the typical harem of girls. It’s because I am attracted to girls because of my gender preference. I generally don’t care what the demographics of the show is, but as long the bottom line is good (animation, story, character, etc.), then I won’t complain. Also, I don’t give a crap what other people thinks about me… they don’t dictate what I should or shouldn’t like. :p
I prefer drama and comedies over hot blooded shouen anime. My sister probably won’t be interested in what I’m seeing since she like action, but oh well. :p
@ Caddy C
You obviously know a lot more about the subject, so thanks for sharing =)
It is better than it used to be, but yes, Japanese women are still expected to comply to societal norms. But from what I’ve seen of Japanese young people during my two visits, I feel like it may be changing, albeit slowly.
It kind of bothers me that the kids still have this idea that TV shows/movies (and perhaps other things) have to be for girls or for boys rather than everyone. Considering that American society is breaking away from this idea, I wonder why it’s so prevalent in their minds. I suppose it’s just an age thing that they’ll grow out of once they get more experience in the world.
@ chikorita157
Glad you like what you like XD Someone unfamiliar with anime would probably think that you should like the action shows and your sister should like the shows with all the cute girls. But it just goes to show that when it comes down to it, anime is for everyone.
One of my friends cannot come to accept that a show with girls could be considered “shonen”, simply because it has females in it. Despite the mega moe, nerd-reference-overdosed style of Lucky Star, he believes it to be shojo, simply for the fact that the main characters are female.
@ jda95
There are lots of people like your friend who have trouble grasping the fact that a show with femininity is made for boys. You should have him read a post I wrote a while back about the definition of shonen and shojo XD
I think that maybe one of the best shows to mention for this is CardCaptor Sakura – when it was dubbed and transformed into ‘Card Captors’, Nelvana did so specifically because they wanted it to appeal to boys in addition to girls, and believed it could only do so if they made Syaoran more prominent a character – that is, made him into a co-lead as opposed to his more secondary status in the original show. Nelvana thought that boys would never be willing to sit down and watch it if Sakura was the clear lead.
Although the fanservice levels of some of these female-heavy shows and the tendency for harem-style stuff is irritating, I am happy that there isn’t the same level of mindset of “show with boys is for boys, show with girls is for girls” going on in the boardrooms of anime studios. I just can’t believe that something like Kanon could ever see the light of production day in America.
@ A Day Without Me
I ranted about Nelvana’s Cardcaptors dub years ago, and it still bothers me to this day. But yes, it’s a prime example of America’s notion that boys are only interested in watching shows starring boys. I’m hoping anime’s growing popularity in America will eventually change this idea, but if it does it’s going to be an extremely slow process.
Pokemon was hitting the pique of its first wave of popularity just after I graduated high school. Before it arrived, I remember kids’ shows being pretty gender-specific throughout the 80s and most of the 90s (maybe because it was just a smart strategy from a merchandising standpoint?), companies seeming intent on dividing and segregating their young audiences rather than making something they would both be drawn to. That seems counter-intuitive today but that’s what like was like in the 80s.
I get the impression that kids today are more free to intermix and don’t tend to view the world in such strict male-female terms. At least the media they choose — assuming they have the freedom to actually do so, I’d say that we in the 80s did not — isn’t quit so gender-rigid as it was for us. Maybe the Internet helped promote a new kind of non-genderized way of watching, reading, playing, etc. in young kids that rewards open-mindedness and tolerance? Just a thought.
@ Joe
Things weren’t quite as gender-specific when I was growing up in the 90s – I remember most of the shows I watched, like Power Rangers, had traits appealing to boys and girls (though, like anime, it was mostly boys). I’ve always liked boy things as well as girl things, so maybe I just didn’t notice.
I’m glad times have changed since the 80s and I’m hoping the aversion that my kids have towards things related to the opposite gender is simply an age thing.
Whilst I love the more and more anime which both genders, male and female, can enjoy. I am continued bothered by the continued artistic portrayal of feminine characters. Where the male usually exhibits a strong foothold and strong way of holding himself, some female characters have the wobbly legs or knees locked near each other (sign of frailty) , the hand close to chest (sign of insecurity), and common lack of strength without the help of other characters of the main male character.
I know its usually the story for some of the characters to gain stronger traits, I also find that even the supporting characters even have these body signs.
It just bothers me that this small little design common in anime may have a an effect on the viewers–that all females are insecure and frail